Greg Kettner, a motivational speaker, business coach and corporate comedian shares his journey in transitioning from a successful career in sales to stand-up comedy and how he encourages business to look at the lighter side to increase performance and build stronger relationships. He also talks about the importance of finding your passion and pursuing what you love.
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From CoLab INC, it's There to Here, a show about entrepreneurs, innovators, and investors, and the impact they seek to make on the world. I'm Ryan Dye, Executive Director of CoLab, and on today's show we talk with Greg Kettner, professional speaker, business coach and corporate comedian. Greg has been involved with a career in sales and also as a speaker, and we're excited to talk with him today to hear about his journey into the exciting world of being a professional motivational speaker. Greg, thanks for joining us again.
Greg Kettner (00:32):
Hey Ryan. Thanks for having me. It's good to see you again.
Absolutely. Both of us graduated from the same school with the same degree at the same time, a small Christian liberal arts college in eastern Washington.
Greg Kettner (00:46):
Five or six years ago.
Right. It was very recent. But while the ink was still drying on my diploma, I headed off to the big city of Seattle to start my career in business. And those first few years, I worked in retail, medical insurance, and a brief stint in sales, which was 100% commission-based, which is a little scary. You could end up making nothing that day, so not a lot of fun. But that was my experience. Tell me about your days right after college.
Greg Kettner (01:19):
Very similar. My last final was 11:00 on a Wednesday, and I had an interview in NikeTown Seattle at 5:00 that evening. I had my car packed and jumped in my car, drove to Seattle, got out, did my interview. And I remember the guy goes, are you committed? I said, I just drove four hours for this interview, so yeah.
You had nowhere else to go.
Greg Kettner (01:44):
Yeah. Here I have this liberal arts degree in business administration and marketing, and I was like welcome to NikeTown, how can we help?
Greg Kettner (01:53):
It was a bit of a slow start.
Yes. No, I can relate, for sure.
Greg Kettner (01:59):
Who were you working with in retail?
I worked for Brooks Brothers, in the clothing industry, so similar experience, which I actually did really enjoy. It was a great company. But those are some challenging first years right out of college when you're trying to figure out where to start.
Greg Kettner (02:19):
Yeah. It suited you well because you always were a sharp dresser, and you probably still are.
Yeah, I'm unfortunately not wearing a tie today.
Greg Kettner (02:29):
I'm more of a t-shirt, tennis shoe kind of guy.
True. When you were in Seattle those first few years, you transitioned out of working for NikeTown and into working in the arena of hockey. Being that you're Canadian background, that's kind of a given, it's going to run in your blood. How did you transition into that and who were you working for?
Greg Kettner (02:56):
I started out, I was working with Seattle [inaudible 00:02:56] opened up in Seattle NikeTown, and I just wasn't being fulfilled. And I'm like, I have this degree, I think I can do more than whatever it was, $7 an hour. I remember, by the time I paid parking and lunch, that was two hours out of my eight hours working at NikeTown. So I went and got a career coach who did a quick assessment, the Myers-Briggs and stuff. He said, what would you want to do if you could do anything? I said, well, I'd play in the NHL. And he goes, why don't you do that? And I said, I don't have the talent, I'm too old. He didn't realize. He said, you're good at sales. Why don't you sell hockey? I had never thought of that as an option.
Greg Kettner (03:44):
I went to the local Western Hockey League team there in Seattle, Seattle Thunderbirds, and said, I'd like to sell for you guys. And they said, sure, let's start. So I did that, and from there, after three years there, worked my way up in sales and got to know what I was doing. And then I got a job with the Vancouver Canucks with the National Hockey League in Vancouver, three years after Seattle.
Yeah. That must have been an exciting transition working for a major National Hockey League.
Greg Kettner (04:18):
Yeah, it was. It was a lot of fun.
What was your primary responsibilities there? If you're doing sales, what does that entail?
Greg Kettner (04:26):
It was mostly season tickets and group tickets. We were looking for, obviously, the bigger the corporation, the more... Usually sell a pair of season tickets, but if you could find a big enough corporation, if you could sell eight or 10, obviously more commission. We really got into a group sales. Whether it was an association or schools, we did try different promotions. We had Battle of the Bands. So these schools, their band would come and play at intermission, but they would sell 2 or 300 tickets to all their friends and their friends' parents. We did a lot of that. And then I got into a little bit of the sponsorship as well too. We have a sponsorship team, but if I had developed a relationship for season tickets and they said, how do we get on the rink boards, or how do we get on TV? Then I would work with a sponsorship team to sell the client. They had more benefits and uses from their tickets.
Sure. So in that time period, you started to dabble in stand-up comedy. Now that's a pivot like none other. How did that get started?
Greg Kettner (05:38):
I grew up, I remember my dad brought home a record player, that's how old I am and how long ago we graduated college. But when we're growing up, we had a Bill Cosby, Fat Albert album. And I think we wore out that record. We knew all the lines and everything. I'd always thought since I was a kid, if I can make somebody laugh and get paid, there'd be nothing better.
Greg Kettner (06:05):
One night we were in a pub in Vancouver, and it happened to be an open mic for stand-up comedy. My buddies dared me, and I'm always up for a good challenge, so I went up. And I don't remember much of what I said, but it was such a rush being on a stage and talking to the 13 people that were there, versus me talking to you right now and telling a joke. It was a totally different dynamic. So I went up to the guy running the room afterwards and said, hey, I'd love to do it again. He goes, yeah, come back. We're here every Wednesday night. I kept on going back. And then I'd have ideas, I'd write them down during the week and I'd practice them in my bathroom in front of the mirror. I had an ice cream scoop in my hand as a microphone.
Greg Kettner (06:56):
It started like that, and then it got to the point where I had a good five minutes, and then a good 10 minutes. And then once you have 10 to 15, they'll start booking you. So I became an MC. I would open up the shows and introduce the featured act and the headliner, and then worked all my way up to where I was touring across Canada and the States, playing clubs and casinos and corporate events. A lot of fun.
Yeah, for sure. You came to a point where you're trying to determine,"I've been working here in a career in sales, I've had success in that area, but I really enjoy the stand-up and doing comedy." And you did a reality TV show in Canada called The Audience, which has a really interesting premise where 50 strangers follow you around and delve into your personal life. That sounds a little awkward. How did you end up on this show and what was the experience there?
Greg Kettner (07:54):
Talk about comedy of errors. It was actually through the club that I was playing, Yuk Yuk's, sent out an email. And they said they're looking for someone who will be willing to do this, and it pays $1500. On a comedian's salary, that was gold. I used to tell people, it took me six years to figure out that I liked money more than stand-up. I auditioned for the thing, and it was a great experience, almost life-changing at the end because I had, like you're saying, 50 strangers that follow me around for a week. And I was trying to figure out, do I keep on doing stand-up comedy, making the little amount of money that I'm making, being on the road all the time, not having time for a relationship? Or do I go back to sales, give up my dream, and what was the crux of that? Why hadn't broken through?
Greg Kettner (08:56):
By the end of it, I had a different perspective. I changed my mind. About a month after that, I reconnected with my now-wife Becky, who you know from college as well. We started dating long distance, and here we are in 2020, we're shacked up together in a house for the last six weeks.
Greg Kettner (09:21):
That was not in the plan.
Did she see you on the show, or it just kind of led there?
Greg Kettner (09:31):
No, she didn't. She's watched the show now afterwards. But I remember, like you had said earlier, we grew up in a conservative Christian religion. And I had not wanted to share with my parents that I was doing stand-up comedy, because it was in bars where people are smoking and drinking and stuff.
Greg Kettner (09:52):
I remember distinctly, the one gal was saying, I was sitting there and they'd been grilling me for about two hours, I was just like, when is filming going to end? And she said, Greg, I have a question for you. She goes, what do you think your mom feels when a friend of hers asks what her son does, and she tells him, he tells jokes? And that was it. I was scared that my parents wouldn't... they're always going to love me, but I wouldn't be able to fully be real with them until I shared with them what I was doing and how I was making people laugh.
Greg Kettner (10:34):
I remember, I'm sitting there crying in front of these 50 people on TV. But it was just such a relief, because I finally figured out, okay, my parents are still going to love me even though I'm a stand-up comedian. But what I'm giving back to people, the amount of laughter and goodwill that people walk away from a show was just as good as any other profession. It really resonated. And that was the tipping point I guess, if you will. They challenged me to have my parents come to a show. I invited them to a show at Yuk Yuk's in downtown Vancouver about three months later when they were in town. And I had to clean up my 10-minute set because my Christian parents are going to be there. But they were sitting in the third row, and I got the biggest compliment from my mom afterwards. She's like, I was having so much fun, I forgot to take pictures. That was like, okay, I can do this. They are proud of me no matter what I'm doing.
Greg Kettner (11:43):
Now that I'm a parent all these years later, we have kids and people are going to mess up, I mess up. But there's still that love and like, this is my kid, why wouldn't I? It was a big turning point for me.
Yeah. I've seen some clips from that episode, and really, you could tell it was an emotional experience for you, but a transformative one for sure.
Greg Kettner (12:08):
Like I say, it's a little nerving to have a bunch of strangers prying into your life, and here they are in your little apartment or whatever, grilling you.
Greg Kettner (12:21):
They came into my house, they came to a comedy show. I was delivering flowers part-time to make ends meet, and they went. I would go deliver flowers and there's 50 people show up. And this person's like, what's going on? Why are there 50 people delivering flowers to me? It was quite interesting. It was great because the outcome of what I got, and I'd got in because it was $1500. It's going to be a paycheck for me-
But you got much more out of it.
Greg Kettner (12:50):
Yeah, absolutely. When you say yes, the power of yes, saying something, it may be totally different than what we had thought it might be, or what's it going to be in for me. But it's what I got out of it. Now the story I can share with other people, how to take those risks and take those chances, and become a better person, even though it's uncomfortable.
Now that you've been working the last several years doing more of what you love, I came across some promo material about you that said, and I quote: Greg is a world class connector who spent time with hockey icon Wayne Gretzky, shared the stage with Robin Williams and almost knocked down Queen Elizabeth by accident. That's going to require some unpacking.
Greg Kettner (13:39):
How much time do we have-
Where would you like to start?
Greg Kettner (13:47):
I'm having a really tough time with this Covid because I'm not a good introvert. I'm extremely extrovert, but I'm learning, and my dog is really good therapy for me. He's heard a lot of stories that he probably shouldn't have. I've always been a good connector. All three of those happened where I was working at the Canucks. I've always been a Wayne Gretzky fan, I have his jersey up on my wall, game-worn, that my brother gave for me from actually college graduation. When I was working for Seattle, my coach had played with the Edmonton Oilers, with Gretzky back in the day when they were rookies. And he knew I was a big fan. We were doing a charity that for Ronald McDonald House, where we had a bunch of players from Hollywood, stars and former NHL players come up and do this charity event. I'd asked my coach, Dean, if there's any way I can get Gretzky to autograph this jersey, that'd be awesome.
Greg Kettner (14:50):
So we were working, it was a Saturday afternoon and my cell phone rang and it was coach. He's like, hey, if you got time, Wayne's down in the locker room if you want to come down for a second. I had my jersey. So I grabbed my jersey, I ran into the locker room, and it was the Seattle Thunderbirds locker room at the KeyArena, the old KeyArena. And I walked in the locker room, and nobody else was in there besides Wayne Gretzky and the Stanley Cup and myself.
Greg Kettner (15:18):
I thought I'd died and gone to heaven. I was just like, aw. It was like a 12-year-old meeting Justin Bieber for the first time. It was very surreal. Wayne looked up and he was like, hey Greg, I'm Wayne. I'm like, yeah, I know. We had a 10 or 15-minute conversation because he was interested in the charity tournament and what I did, which was selling hockey tickets. He's like, I've always played hockey, I don't know anything about advertising. It was interesting that he had an interest in me as much as I had an interest in him, and getting the autograph.
Greg Kettner (16:01):
The Queen story, I was working for the Vancouver Canucks at this time, and she had come to a preseason game against the San Jose Sharks, and she had had her own suite and everything. But she came down and dropped the puck, and then she was going up back to her suite to watch the game. I was on duty that night, so I was in charge of any ticketing problems that might come up or whatnot, like our tickets are misprinted or somebody is in our seat. I'd gotten a call saying they need you down at the box office because there's this VIP, their tickets are messed up, can you come down?
Don't tell me they messed up the Queen's tickets.
Greg Kettner (16:42):
No, it wasn't the Queen, luckily. I'm waiting for an elevator to go down five flights, because I was up in the nosebleeds. So I just jumped in a staircase, the fire staircase down the back, right above the ticket office on the first floor. So I'm flying down the stairs, and I come around the corner like, hold it, stop. And there was all these bodyguards and stuff. I'm like, what? Oh. I didn't know if I should curtsy or bow or what. I'm like, bless you, Queen. I don't even remember what I said. I was so flustered by it. She was like, oh, it's okay, I just thought you were going to run me over. So that was about it. I didn't get an autograph.
Greg Kettner (17:24):
But by connecting people, I don't know, it's weird how these things have happened and come full circle.
For sure. Then you had your experience with Robin Williams.
Greg Kettner (17:38):
Yeah. I was doing an open mic in Vancouver, and it was a Tuesday night at the Urban Well. And they had two shows, the first was for the new comedians at 7:00, and the 9:00 show was for all the pros. But they would do a contest, whoever had the best set at 7:00 got to be on the 9:00 show. We were always working, trying to get our way to the 9:00 show. It was a Tuesday night, I was third on the bill. Halfway through my set, the door opened up, and in walked Robin Williams. And I'd been a fan of his since I was a kid, like Cosby too. This guy makes me laugh. If I can ever get to that level... In my head, I'm like, wow, that's Robin Williams.
Greg Kettner (18:24):
I finished my set, finished my five minutes. He's sitting back at the bar, and I went and sat down. And a lesson I've learned over the years is when you meet celebrities like Gretzky or the Queen or whatever, if you treat them like normal people, like you and I are having a conversation and not be enamored with him, they absolutely love it because they'll open up and they'll talk to you and they'll ask questions, because they're never treated like that. Here I was sitting next to my comedian hero, Robin Williams, and I just started chatting with him like, hey, where are you from? He's like, from San Francisco. I was like, oh, that's cool. Totally blew him off. I said, what are you doing up in Vancouver? He's like, we're working on the movie. They were filming Midnight at the Museum at the time. I said, are you the camera guy? Do you hold the mic? What do you do? Are you an extra? He just gave me this very puzzled look and he goes, no, I'm a movie star and I'm a comedian. Oh, have I seen you in any?
Greg Kettner (19:25):
And he was like, all right, you're messing with me. I go, absolutely. I said, I'm a big fan. And he goes, you did a really good job. So we had this five, 10-minute conversation. And when I was up on stage, there was about seven people in the bar, and they'd pay 2 or $3 to get in. In between the shows, the guy who ran the night came up to Robin and said, we'd love to have you go up, if you want to do 15 or 20 minutes. I piped in. I go, Robin, do you have 20 minutes? He goes, don't worry about it. I got it, Greg. He went up at the end of the show, the second show started 9:00, Robin finished at 12:30. Now there's 200 people in the bar, the bouncers are charging $25 to get in. It was a wonderful night. And afterwards he came up and said, hey, thanks for blowing me off, made me laugh. We got a picture and that was it.
Greg Kettner (20:19):
He was such a nice guy that, three years later, I was doing a show in Vancouver, and I walked into the green room and hanging out with the other comics. And the door opened up, and in walked Robin Williams, and everybody's jaws kind of dropped. I was like, Hey Robin. He's like, Hey Greg, how's it going? Good to see you again... which was pretty awesome that he had a photographic memory to remember the skinny John Goodman three years later.
Skinny John Goodman. It's certainly a tragedy that we've lost his talent.
Greg Kettner (20:53):
As you continue to do comedy, you had an experience where you are able to connect your corporate business life with the comedy experience by baptism of fire.
Greg Kettner (21:10):
I would say that's a story worth telling. I understand you got your big start in Vegas, so share with us how that happened.
Greg Kettner (21:21):
I started in Vegas and now I'm in Walla Walla.
Greg Kettner (21:27):
I was working for a software company in Vancouver, and every year they would have their sales kickoff where 3500 people from around North America, we'd all go to Vegas for meetings and training and entertainment and whatnot. Every year, they had an awards banquet on the Wednesday night, and the number one salesperson in the company got a brand new Porsche. We're not talking ribbons, we're talking big prizes, trips. And every year they would hire a comedian or an entertainer. One year we had John Cleese, another year was Sugar Ray Leonard. They're paying these guys 30, $40000 to be the MC and to lighten the mood and everything. The year I was there, seven minutes into the event, the comedian that they had hired totally messed up and made a very derogatory comment about one of the presenters on stage, and got fired seven minutes into a three-hour program.
Greg Kettner (22:31):
It was very awkward. I remember I was at the very back of the room, and I could hear the two of them, because they'd cut the mic but you could still hear the two of them arguing as they walked off stage. People came out like, get off, go. So the band started playing, the music came on, and I was in the back of the room, very awkward. It went silent and then chatter, and everybody was talking about what happened. And then over the PA system, they made an announcement. They said, ladies and gentlemen, we're extremely sorry for what just happened. We apologize. But we are going to restart the show again in 15 minutes, so please enjoy your dinner, your drinks, and we'll be back in 15 minutes. And oh by the way, if Greg Kettner is here, please come to the stage. And I was like, is there two of us? Why would they be calling me out? I had like five minutes of fart jokes. So I didn't say anything. I was like, I think I'm going to get fired. I was sitting at a table with 10 other people that didn't know who I was.
Greg Kettner (23:32):
And five minutes after that, again they came over the PA system, they said, seriously, if anyone knows where Greg Kettner is seated, his room number, his cell phone number, we need to talk to him immediately. And that's when former friend, Trevor, came flying over from three tables over going, dude, they want you to go do stand-up. I'm like, no. He goes, no, you're funny. If I laugh, they'll laugh. And that was the first time I thought, I need to believe what other people say about me versus what's in my head. I was sitting there and I could see the stage, it seemed like a mile away. And three feet to my left was an exit door that would've taken me back out to the craps table or my bedroom. I had this decision, do I go or not? But now, Trevor had outed me.
Greg Kettner (24:23):
I started doing the walk of shame, and I remember walking up, I didn't want to look at anybody. I didn't know if I was going to get fired, what they wanted, how I could help. I walked backstage and Trevor was like, all right, you got this. And at this point, I can't remember my name or any of my jokes. I said, I'm Greg. They said, great. And they started wiring me up with a microphone. I'm like, what are you guys doing? They go, we heard you do stand-up. We need you to go do 15 minutes so we can restart this whole thing, so we can figure out what we can do from here on out. And I go, what? 3500 people? And Trevor's like, you got this. I'm like, well, can't do any worse.
Greg Kettner (25:06):
I'm mic'd up, and I remember I was standing on these rickety stairs behind the stage and this huge royal blue curtain. And on the other side, where I had been seated five minutes earlier with 3500 people, it was silent. It was that same weird feeling in the room. The guy that was with me, Steve, walked out again, apologize to everybody and said, we're sorry for what happened. But we have a Plan B. We have one of our own salespeople from Vancouver, he's very funny, he's going to tell some jokes. Please welcome Greg Kettner. So I walked out on stage to a standing ovation, which I had not earned, at all. But when the applause started dying, I just said, hello, my name is Greg Kettner. It's only going to get better. I talked about the elephant in the room, I made a joke about it. They were on my side. And I just started talking about what had happened in Vegas, what hadn't happened. They wanted 15 minutes, and I could see the clock on the stage, it was at 13 minutes.
Greg Kettner (26:10):
And then being in sales, you always have to ask. If you don't ask, you never know if they're going to go with you or not go with you. And that year, if you hit a certain number, you got President's Club, which was a 10000-dollar trip through Turkey and Greece, a cruise, and you can take somebody. And I was nowhere near that number. I'd had a bad quarter and totally was going to miss the boat. In front of 3500 people, after I told these jokes, I said, I want to apologize to everybody here. I did not hit my number. I let my team down, I let my manager down. I said, but I think I'm kind of helping out the company tonight. I go, is there any way I can get on the boat? And the crowd just went nuts.
Greg Kettner (26:54):
This guy stands up in the front row, walks up to me, leans over and says, hey kid, you're on the boat. I go, this guy says I'm on the boat! So I lean back down with my microphone, I go, what's your name? He's like, my name is Jacque, I'm the president of this company. I'm like, yeah, I made the boat. So I got my second only standing ovation, one that I deserved because I asked. It was there and I asked.
You showed the ultimate sales tactic.
Greg Kettner (27:24):
Absolutely. I asked and then I shut up, and I waited for an answer.
You had the president cornered.
Greg Kettner (27:31):
Yeah, exactly. I took a chance. I said yes to going out. I made the ask. And I realized that if there's times in our life if we don't ask a question, we're never going to get there, whether it's with our job or spouse or kids or colleagues. But the feeling that I had from walking up to the stage with Trevor, looking at the carpet, not wanting to talk to anybody, to walking off that stage, high fives the rest of the night, and then from there, six months later, I quit my job and I started doing stand-up. And then that transitioned it into public speaking. I share with people how to use humor, everyday kind of humor, laughing to make ourselves better.
That's one of the primary areas you focus on is how to help companies large and small to utilize humor as an equalizer, and something that can be really beneficial in a corporate culture. Not that it's all fun and games, but sometimes we can take ourselves so seriously that we're missing opportunities.
Greg Kettner (28:38):
Absolutely. Even if it's just a silly cartoon or playing a game in the office, like who gets to have to buy coffee that morning or whatnot, it's amazing when we do take time to laugh and reflect and giggle. It releases those endorphins, which makes us feel better, it gives us more productivity, creativity. Having a good mental attitude has a lot to do with humor, but it can boost your income and it can boost your job satisfaction as well.
Greg Kettner (29:11):
I would say one of the main takeaways from chatting with you today is that it may take some time, and there are definitely twists and turns as you're trying to find your calling. And that's not necessarily a bad thing when you're pursuing what you're passionate about. What advice would you give to young entrepreneurs in the early days of their journey?
Greg Kettner (29:31):
I think it all boils down to do what you love. If you can find something that you're passionate about, because I've had plenty of jobs, and I really love sports and I really love making people laugh, and I really love connecting. So it's taken me a while, but now I get to go to pro sports teams and share with their ticket sales people, which I used to do, how to incorporate humor into their work culture so that they can have more sales, they connect better with people, they're memorable and all these kinds of things. I think for an entrepreneur starting out is do what you love, because if you do, it's not work.
Greg Kettner (30:10):
I wake up every morning and I come into my office, and I get to talk to people, I get to write and I get to craft lessons to people on how to have a happier, more joyful, fulfilled life by doing what you love. I don't know where the next twist or turn might be in my career, but over the last four or five years since I've kind of fallen into this by accident, that I absolutely love going to work and I love being my own boss.
True. That's a great bit of advice and certainly something to strive for. I appreciate that.
Greg Kettner (30:45):
Greg, thanks for talking with us today. We wish you well, and we'll certainly check in on how things are going in the weeks and months to come. How can folks connect with you and find you?
Greg Kettner (30:57):
Probably the easiest is just by website, GregKettner.com. I'm on Facebook, I'm on all the social media as well. But if anybody has any questions, any of your listeners, I love serving and helping people because I've had many people in my life, including yourself, have helped me. You helped me get through accounting, I remember. There's always people in your life, so if I can ever give back.
I'm sure maybe that you returned the favor and another class, probably a marketing class or something.
Greg Kettner (31:28):
Maybe. But that's it, right? We're all in this together, and the more we help each other, the farther we're going to get ahead.
Absolutely. Real quick, I understand you just for fun started a Facebook page that just focuses on people being able to share comedy. Tell us a little bit about that and how we can connect with that as well.
Greg Kettner (31:49):
I started it about six weeks ago I guess now. It's called the Humor Lab on Facebook, and I did it out of necessity because I need attention. No, I need people around me.
Greg Kettner (32:05):
It was an outlet for me. So I said, well, let's do a humor lab where everybody can come and use their own sense of humor, whether it's a joke that they write out or a video or a meme or whatever. I also wanted it to be that my grandmother and my kid could read it too. The rules are PG-13, no politics. And there's some people that like, what about free speech? I'm like, not on my page. But where everybody can collaborate, and just the stories that come out of there with people, like this is exactly what need, I shared it with my friends. And now we're doing a live stand-up comedy show on Zoom every Saturday night, with a different headliner. It's been great to connect with these people, and now there's 4600 people on this thing already in six weeks. Everybody's like, how did you do it? Well, I just laughed and it happened.
That's great. It's called The Humor Lab. And I know there's several out there on Facebook, so how do we find yours?
Greg Kettner (33:10):
It's The Humor Lab, and there's three eggs that are smiling.
All right, three eggs that are smiling, we will look for that for sure. Thanks for listening to Here to There. We invite you to check us out on all of the social media platforms, and visit our website, CoLabInc.org to sign up for information on our many upcoming events and the various ways we help promote the spirit of entrepreneurship. If you have comments on today's episode, or know someone who would be a great guest on our show, send your suggestions to Ryan@CoLabInc.org and we'd love to hear from you. Special thanks to our producer, Michael Weberley, editing by Tanya Musgrave, and all the CoLab staff. Until next time, be well and God bless.